When I was about 6 months into the Alcoholics Anonymous program, one of the old timers pulled me aside. He said, “Brian you really need to say you believe in god in the meetings“. I told him I was not comfortable with that as I was not sure how I felt on the subject. He said “Brian, it does not matter. You have to just say it so everyone else in the group will feel better about it and you” I was not sure if I was in a fluid recovery program or being indoctrinated into a cult. While I never went back to that particular meeting I was mindful of the fact that his beliefs were his alone and not those of the group. I call this type of A.A member an “Alkazombie“. A person who has been so “cultified” in his/her approach to A.A. as to be almost oblivious to the real world around him/her. The person spend all of his time attempting to “bite” new A.A members and turn them into Alkazombies. I made sure he did not bite me. That being said there are people who have reached such terrible lows and are so desperate for change that they need to become Alkazombies to survive. I have no issue with that. I do take issue which the philosophy that order to become a member of A.A and stay in a particular chapter you must become an Alkazombie. That is a cult. Here is another example of a Alkazombie. This is a comment I received to my article, Is God An Alcoholic:
“Cuban, Its pretty simple you arrogant ass… You are not alcoholic, give it up…. I don’t know why you feel you must state that you aren’t spiritual, your arrogance and complete lack of consideration for what happens to alcoholics who read your blog make that completely obvious…
This guy’s point is that anyone in AA and not doing it his way or the “Big Book” AA way should be “expelled”. An example of someone who has embraced the cult aspects of A.A. He is a classic Alkazombie.
Female Alkazombies
Does the AA philosophy encourage Alkazombies and “cult- like behavior” in its thousands of chapters? Perhaps the personality makeup of the specific chapter can cause the group to function like a cult. I believe that it is the very rare exception rather than the rule. One of darker examples of how an AA chapter can lose its way and take on the status of a cult is illustrated in an article about an AA chapter in Washington D.C . The members of this chapter of AA encouraged younger female members to have sex with older male members. They encouraged members in to discontinue all ties with anyone who was not a member of the chapter. When these allegations were made public, this group was disbanded as an AA sanctioned group. While this is the exception rather than the rule, with thousands of A.A chapters world wide, it would be naive to assume it is the only exception.
Is AA as an organization a cult? As far as the traditional structure of a cult the answer would have to be no. AA as an organization has no central authority. No one is handing down edits and rules top down. AA in fact other than requiring a person to have a desire to stop drinking to attend closed meetings for the most part has very few rules, only suggestions. Unfortunately Alkazombies often try to enforce suggestions as formal rules of behavior scaring new members away. The seminal book on this subject is AA: Cult or Cure by Charles Bufe. He outlines a litany of conditions as a whole in his opinion qualify AA as a cult. I am not going to debate his criteria. Words are like statistics—you form your opinion, then you make them fit the point you want to make. I could take Bufe’s points and make a good argument that the Boy Scouts of America is a cult .
Any time you have people coming together in a group you are going to have formal and informal criteria for membership even at the lowest level. You are going to have a common purpose. You are going to have strong personalities and weak personalities. You are going to have strong personalities that overwhelm and dominate weaker personalities. You are going to have weaker personalities who have to adopt the essence of the stronger ones to excel in the group. Does that happen in AA ? Of course it does. Does that happen in the Boy Scouts? Sure it does. Did that happen in my law school study group? You bet. Those attributes do not transform each of the aforementioned organizations into a cult. They are simply the attributes of group dynamics. These personality issues however can be much more pronounced in self-help groups like AA. No one is walking into an AA meeting because they are at a high point in their life.
When I walked into AA I was defeated. I was weak. I had lost my sense of self, self-respect, respect of my family. I was vulnerable. I was naturally more open to suggestion that would put me on a new track of self-respect and sobriety. In my cases while I did not take them all, the suggestions were for the most part healthy and in line with AA philosophy. If I had walked into the Washington D.C chapter? Who knows where I would be. The point is that in groups without checks and balances this type of environment lends itself to the danger of domination by strong personalities with amoral motives . These checks and balances are the members themselves who are different, diverse, and compassionate, looking out for each other and not trying to reform each other. Individual AA chapters will always have their share of Alkazombies who think they know what is best for all and try to bite everyone.
So, is AA a cult? I don’t think so, but since each person has to make it work for them as an individual. I can see how some people who fail at it would take solace in viewing it that way. Of course, those who think it is a cult would argue that I am a “cult member” and cult members never think they are in a cult. I can also see how people with personalities that are just not compatible with a core philosophy would not succeed in AA and view it as a cult. Is there any group out there that does not have a core philosophy? I suspect these people probably have issues in any group setting in which conformity to certain standards is an element of reaching a common goal. Is there any group out there where some level of conformity is not needed to reach a common goal? If the common goal is a good thing there is nothing wrong with embracing it. Just watch out for the Alkazombies. They will get you if you are not careful!
Below are two diametrically opposed videos on AA One is by Bill W., one of the founders of AA and the other is an interview with author James Stanton Peele who argues that AA is a cult. A fascinating comparison in viewpoints.
Bill W. \
- Dr. Stanton Peele
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February 18th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Great post. There's this kind of zombie behavior in all groups, I think, though they should get their own names like this. I'm a Buddhist and avoid any group discussions because of this, maybe we can call them Dharmazombies? Perhaps christian versions could be Jezombies? Maybe party line politicians can be… well… maybe just zombies.
February 18th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
AA has helped, what, hundreds of thousands of people. Yet, too many people in all facets of life, pass judgment on others. Individuality. What works for one, may not work for someone else. It's finding the balance to learn, manage, and enjoy your life with serenity. Giving up the chaos is powerful!
February 18th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
I am the person who's comment started this rant. Brian did not post the entire comment. I have some more comments for Brian. Please correct me if this chronology is incorrect.
1. Mark Cuban decides he may be alcoholic
2. Mark Cuban walks into AA defeated. "When I walked into AA I was defeated. I was weak. I had lost my sense of self, self-respect, respect of my family".
3. Mark Cuban learns in AA that the root of his problem is selfishness and self-centeredness and that thinking of others needs rather than his own will help him.
4. Mark Cuban stays sober for two years.
5. Mark Cuban doesn't agree completely with AA. Mark Cuban has a choice to honor the 11th tradition of the program which has helped him. Mark can stop going to AA meetings whenever he likes.
5. Mark Cuban shows contempt rather than gratitude towards the people who helped him by breaking the 11th tradition and speaking publicly about his involvement in AA.
Is this not accurate? It appears that you place your need for blog material above the simple requests of the program which helped you?
You are still as self-centered and arrogant as you were before AA. Just being sober does not make you recovered. Its your actions that make you recovered.
I'm quite certain that you are unwelcome at any AA meeting that knows you actively blog about AA. I am also quite certain that you would be welcome back at these meetings if you were to make amends to them, however I would be completely surprised if you know anything about the 9th Step.
Do you still attend meetings?
February 18th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
Nate-I guess it is possible Mark has kept it from me but to my knowledge he is not nor has he never been in AA. Are you sure you are sober?? Name confusion is a common sign of trouble. Go hit a meeting. You need it. I promise not to blog about it….
BTW I am also funding a new fall Fox reality series entitled "AA The Brian Cuban Way" , any interest in being a guest? My next blog about AA will be on April 8th 2009. Until then see if you can hunt down every one in my group and tell them what I am doing. I am sure they will tell you how much they care about your opinion. Have a nice day and keep coming back….
)
Also if you want to discuss whether AA is a cult, feel free to post, but all further 11th tradition rants are irrelevant to the topic and will be delted.
February 18th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
Ok, you got me, your name is Brian.
Yes I am interested in discussing AA as a cult Brian.
Brian, do you still attend AA meetings, that you feel are cult like, or did you stop when some overzealous AA people gave you this opinion?
I know the type of person you are speaking of in AA. I know, I know, its appalling to witness an individual find a real solution to their seemingly hopeless state of alcoholism / addiction and then be excited about offering that same solution to others who have decided they are hopeless.
I really want to know if you currently attend these cult like meetings where you are accosted by zombies?
February 19th, 2009 at 2:51 am
Such a cuttie. His photos were seen at millionaire persoanals site*****Love Wealthy . c om****"last week. Is he in relationship with a pretty girl on that site now. -
February 19th, 2009 at 3:17 am
Recovery, the only place people random strangers feel entitled to lecture a 40+ year old man! Can't you just feel the serenity in his tone? I want what Nate has!
I agree with your points about the fellowship, but I also sense a bit of anger/negativity in your writing. It's understandable, I was frustrated about everything you touched on from years 2-4. In recovery, I've assimilated as much as I need to, yet I have still retained my own values/beliefs that are far from mainstream. We come in and we cling on to as many suggestions as possible (even the ones that never sit well with us – for me prayer was one of these) because we are confused and broken. Overtime, we regain our sense of self-worth and decision making skills. It is at that point that we can either mature into our own recovery, try to mimic someone else's, or step off all together. I'm not stepping off. I'm also not trying to play a cheap imitation when I'm already a wonderful original. There's room for all types.
It's eerie seeing you write what I've thought in the past. But now I believe in God, and you will too Brian. You will too. (just kidding) Thanks for the great post.
February 19th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Derek-this will be my last post. Moving on to other topics. There are of course people in the program I don't particularly care for like in any group dynamic but I would not say I am "angry at AA. I enjoy going to meetings and interacting with the group. There are simply things I disagree with and as you probably have guessed I tend to express my feelings in my writing. I am an individual and seems to piss a lot of people like Nate off because they define themselves by the group.
Nate is right about one thing. Other than protecting the anonymity of others in the group, I could not care less about the 11th tradition. It is a suggestion not a rule for membership. It is a suggestion I choose not to follow. My personal experiences belong to me alone. I write about my personal experiences including AA. I will continue to do so. If makes others feel better about their program to call me arrogant, " a dry drunk that is all about them and I could not care less.
February 19th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Brian – I carry a meeting to a treatment center on Wednesdays. Would you like to go and share about the positive aspects of AA and what its done for your life? You don't have to discuss god or anything spiritual if you don't like. You don't even have to promote AA. Tthe goal is simply to try and give some people in there hope that alcoholism / addiction can be overcome.
Think about it, having met me in person and seen me interact with a group, you can then describe in detail my Alkazombie characteristics.
February 19th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Nate, I suspect you are a good guy doing a good thing. I did not mean to infer that you were an "alkazombie". I was only referring to the people of that nature I have have personally observed. My sole issue with you was what I believed is a constant problem of AA hypocrisy. Every one speaks of working their own side of the street but then has no problem crossing it when they hear something they don't like.
April 20th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Gratefully, I have never addicted to drugs and alcohol. (Food is an entirely different matter however.) As a pastor, I have worked with several AA groups over the years and talked to dozens of participants for hours. Currently, we host 3 meetings per week (and I do not have a list of who objects
The observation that groups form to provide some meaningful help or service frequently experience 'fringe' behavior is cogent. We all have them. churches, doctors, firemen, professional athletes, even lawyers. The next step in the analysis should be that one should not judge the value or contribution of the group as a whole by the activities and/or statements of the fringe element.
Regarding the AA commitment to belief in a higher power; this element of AA seems to address a specific psychological element in addictive personalities – an unwillingness to acknowledge the need for help and and unwillingness to submit to any outside authority. This step is crucial in the mental and emotional adjustment that an alcoholic must make to overcome his addiction.
Seems Brian had a bad experience and at least one other person has been less that supportive. Really sorry about that and wish there was more I could do to personally help both/either work through the issues. In much the same way that there are stages of grief, there are often stages of recovery for addictive behaviors. Questioning, anger, acting out, denial, combativeness, etc (in no particular order) are common.
For me, I am ready to applaud and Amen anyone that is in the process of getting past addictions. My way would definitely be with dependence on Jesus and spiritual things. Brian's way is different and other writers seem different still. To all I say 'Congratulations. Keep up the good fight.'
I have a standing offer of coffee for Brian but he keeps reminding me that I am in Dallas more often than he is in Belen, NM.