Facebook At Odds With Obama On Holocaust Denial

President Barack Obama recently spoke at a Holocaust Remembrance Day event. The event was put on by the National Holocaust Memorial Museum. He stated that he was committed to battling those who deny the atrocities of World War II.

“To this day, there are those who insist the Holocaust never happened, who perpetrate every form of intolerance,… “We have an opportunity as well as an obligation to confront these scourges… That is my commitment as president.”

The ugly face of Holocaust Denial is still smiling across the globe over 63 years after the last concentration camp was liberated at the end of World War II. It has become especially virulent in the area of social media where anonymity protects deniers like a white sheet.

Facebook is a prime example. The following groups promoting Holocaust Denial are currently active on Facebook (as of the writing of this article).

“Based on the facts….There was no Holocaust
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2452587161

Holocaust: A series of Lies
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=80565100143

Holocaust is a Holohoax
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=18701411294

“Holohoax
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=9371162562

“Holocaust is a Myth”
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=15631489021

Holocaust Denial is not against the law in the United States. It is also important to note that there is no such thing as a 1st Amendment private right of free speech in the United States. The belief that the 1st amendment protects speech in the private social media arena or at your place of employment is a common misconception. The 1st Amendment only applies where there is federal government or state action.(there are situations in which the government can regulate speech if a compelling interest is shown.) Private companies such as Facebook are free to regulate speech however they see fit.

How do private social media/networking companies such as Facebook regulate various types of speech within their vast, relatively unguarded international borders? What types of speech do they regulate? As we traverse the social media universe, stopping at blogs and popular social media sites such as MySpace, Digg, Facebook and YouTube we are bombarded with unpopular opinions. Opinions on subjects such as the Holocaust that fly in the face of all accepted historical research. Should we care? Facebook certainly has the right to allow diverse points of view on politically and historically sensitive issues. Facebook also has Terms Of Service(TOS) in place that dictate the limitations on such content. Facebook’s TOS contains the following limitation on the types of content that may not be posted on its site:

“upload, post, transmit, share, store or otherwise make available content that would constitute, encourage or provide instructions for a criminal offense, violate the rights of any party, or that would otherwise create liability or violate any local, state, national or international law.”

This is an important Term Of Service as it relates to Holocaust Denial because Holocaust Denial does not enjoy the same protection in other countries that it does in the United States. The advocation of Holocaust Denial is a crime in the following countries: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Israel, Slovakia and Switzerland.

Do the existence of Facebook groups that advocate beliefs that are crimes in other countries violate Facebook TOS? Seems to be a straightforward question that Facebook representatives are capable of answering. Here is the argument for removal of Holocaust Denial groups:

Holocaust Denial is a crime in countries in which Facebook as an active presence. Germany is an example. Facebook in fact, has an independent presence/platform in Germany. Facebook TOS would seem to prohibit content that violate the laws of the countries in which Facebook has a presence. There are some simple questions Facebook could answer to address this issue.

Why does Facebook allow groups that promote Holocaust Denial?

Does the Facebook TOS referenced above apply to Holocaust Denial groups? Why or why not?

I recently sent Facebook the following email:

From:
To:
“Alex Wu”

Alex:

The article I am writing is regarding Facebook TOS and Facebook Groups that support Holocaust Denial. You may or may not know that Holocaust Denial is a crime in many European countries including countries where Facebook seeks to establish a presence such as Germany. Facebook TOS specifically prohibit such groups from:

“upload, post, transmit, share, store or otherwise make available content that would constitute, encourage or provide instructions for a criminal offense, violate the rights of any party, or that would otherwise create liability or violate any local, state, national or international law.”

I am specifically referring to the following Facebook Groups:

Based on the facts….There was no Holocaust
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2452587161

Holocaust: A series of Lies
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=80565100143

Holocaust is a Holohoax
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=18701411294

Holohoax
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=9371162562

Holocaust is a Myth
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=15631489021

Is there anyone at Facebook I can ask for a comment on why these groups are permitted and/or do not violate Facebook TOS before I write the article?

Sincerely,

Brian Cuban

To date I have received no response to my email from anyone at Facebook. No action of any kind has been taken even if that action would be to simply explain the Facebook TOS to me and how it applies to such groups. There appears to be a humorous irony in Facebook’s discretionary enforcement of its TOS. Upload a copyrighted video. Remove it or you are gone. Post someone’s Facebook profile on a blog. You are gone. Deny the Holocaust. Have a field day. It reminds me of a quote that is often seen in the context of the Holocaust:

All that’s necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing

To Facebook: Thank you for doing nothing.

55 Comments For This Post

  1. Derek (1 comments.) Says:

    Interestingly, it appears (to the extent you can tell) several members of these groups are from the countries where holocaust denial is a crime. While the U.S. may not outlaw ideas (such as holocaust denial) and perhaps Facebook shouldn't either, I think your point of how the existence of these groups violates the laws of countries where Facebook operates. Certainly it's easy to enough to limit access to parts of facebook that would be outlawed in certain places.

  2. Christine Says:

    It's comforting to know that there are only a combined 357 members of these groups, and some are members of one or more, I suspect. Birds of a feather.

  3. Brian Cuban (138 comments.) Says:

    Christine, I certainly understand that sentiment. We have to be careful with that however. That was also the overwhelming view of those who viewed Hitler as a crazy guy who would never come to power…

  4. Travis Chesney (1 comments.) Says:

    Great post, Brian. Though I think some clarification is in order, (probably on my end as well after this post, but bear with me.) It seems that at the Federal level, yes, Free Speech is not absolute, however, much in the same way people can be acquitted of criminal charges, civil charges can still be brought. In this sense, there is another level of protection for free speech.

    Secondly, the groups for Holocaust Denial were not created by those within the countries where they are considered illegal. That may be the basis for their decision. Free Speech protections do often come down to respect more than the letter of the law. Giving people the right to believe what they want, and speak those beliefs should be an unalienable and absolute right, regardless of how horrific, unusual or absolutely illogical and stupid the speech is.

    Thirdly, Facebook tends to pull down copyrighted videos or blog postings because lawsuits from studios will in the end, cost them money, generally the #1 concern. As for blog postings, that is an issue of protecting people's privacy, working through a system that allows you to maintain secrecy from the general public.

    In the end, it is, as you put it, "discretionary enforcement", and taking down something that seems offensive to some, may result in others demanding other "offensive" content being taken down, which may range from a simple profanity to even people in bikinis. But then again, it is the Holocaust, and that may "Godwin" the entire conversation.

    I'd like to think that we live in a society that is growing and maturing, one that will always recognize Holocaust deniers as the fools outside of reality that they are, and that Free Speech that does not promote hate or violence, should be protected.

  5. Rafael V Rabinovich (1 comments.) Says:

    Fortunately there is an organization fighting hatred, racism, anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial in Facebook and other popular Internet sites: The Jewish Internet Defense Force (JIDF).

  6. Brian Cuban (138 comments.) Says:

    While I do not agree with all of their platforms, they do a great job on Facebook issues.

  7. simply_c (1 comments.) Says:

    Point taken:) In comparison, The Facebook group "I don't care how comfortable Crocs are, you still look like a Dumbass", has over 1,000,000 members. These 5 groups combined have peanuts for #'s. Isn't there an idiot in every crowd?

  8. Tyler Says:

    This is all very disturbing. I wonder how many of the people in the group actually believe what the group stands for or if they are just motivated by hatred. From what I read there is not even an attempt to make a historical argument, just a bunch of hateful rhetoric.

  9. Jennifer Robinson (1 comments.) Says:

    I do not want to be censored. If these people want to express their views, I believe they should have the right to do so. I don't have to agree with them.

    FaceBook needs to stick to their own regs, or better define their TOS if ambiguity is the problem. The fact that they have ignored Brian's request for clarification in this matter is concerning. Makes me wonder what they are hiding.

  10. Randy Shiner (1 comments.) Says:

    I think the best thing to do is to contact prosecutors’ offices in, e.g., Germany, where denial of the Shoah is a crime and let them deal w/FB on a country by country basis. (the Germans would know, wouldn’t they?)

    The relatively miniscule numbers of people involved is irrelevant. ANY denial of the Shoah should not be tolerated in civilized society.

    Great post, Brian. Thanks.

  11. Janet Marcum (3 comments.) Says:

    Don't get me wrong – I hate to hear of the existence of groups like these. My grandparents came to America to escape the atrocities they witnessed in Holland, perpetrated by the Nazis. So obviously I'm emotionally drawn towards the removal of these groups, because I know they are false and likely full of hate-mongers. But, from a purely intellectual standpoint, with no regard for emotion, if Facebook removed these groups, they'd be opening a huge can of worms. "Do the existence of Facebook groups that advocate beliefs that are crimes in other countries violate Facebook TOS?" If they answered yes, they'd have to start censoring an enormous amount of data on their website. There are tons of beliefs/actions that are crimes in other countries, but not crimes in the US. How would they censor them only from the countries where they are considered criminal? Or would they have to censor them everywhere, so that Americans now feel restricted? Even better, there are tons of groups out there that promote activities that ARE currently crimes in the US. Do they remove all of the groups that promote marijuana usage? Or do they perform no censorship whatsoever, so that we can still enjoy some of the good with the bad? I applaud you for bringing this topic to our attention, and attempting to open a dialogue with Facebook. I just feel weary that any response you get will leave a sour taste in our mouths.

  12. Brian Cuban (138 comments.) Says:

    Interesting that you should bring that up. I did contact the government branch responsible for hate crimes in Germany and did not receive a response. I will find the email and post it.

  13. Jennifer May Says:

    Out of sight out of mind is a convenience that costs with a repetition of history. -yours truly

    It's easier to deny painful things than it is to admit that they exist. And the denying party also has the luxury of denying that they are capable of doing such things, if in fact, something never happened. One reason why I love Jews, the concept of Zahor, remembrance-for thousands of years as it currently stands. Which I think, also makes the Jewish concept of linear, instead of cyclical, history possible. Way to carry out Tikkun Olam Cuban!

  14. Matt Alexander Says:

    Holocaust denial is so ridiculous I can't even get mad at it. Bemused maybe. I pity its followers.

    That aside, censorship is anti-constitutional.

  15. Matt P Says:

    It should never be illegal to believe something. Ever. There are people who believe all sorts of things that we find ridiculous. To outlaw or enforce the removal of such material is morally negligent. These people obviously need a dose of reality, but I'm sure they would say the same about the other 99.9999999% of us. I would dare you to argue that pro gay marriage sentiment should be removed from the internet or sites like facebook, which I am actually a member of.
    The problem here is that you cannot legislate someone's belief, no matter how silly or stupid it is. If you could, we would have thrown all the bibles out in the country long ago. Intelligible people would have said "God and Santa have to go"
    Gay marriage and religion are obviously issues with a much more evenly divided set of supporters (even though atheism has staggeringly low numbers). While the percentages of supporters may be low, there are enough real numbers of people to make it a reality. One that is in our lives almost daily.
    Be careful, when telling people what to think. You and I may [safely] assume these people are idiots, but there's definitely a bigger issue in your article than whether or not the Holocaust happened.

  16. Rhys Says:

    What I want to understand is why Jews seem to have a field day with the Holocaust and sympathy for victims and survivors when the Holocaust is only one or many genocides perpetrated around the globe from Asia to the Middle East, Africa to Europe. The Holocaust as a whole was one of the smaller such events. Why is the Jews aren't leading the fight to oppose genocide of all races. Get off the soap box already people.

  17. bcuban Says:

    A lot of people in 1930's Germany felt Hitler and his followers were small in number and irrelevant.

  18. jebuff Says:

    Brian,
    Ref'd over to you by TheJockosphere.com…
    Living in France, as of today 3 of the 5 FB sites cited on your blog are blocked. I got a feel for their content by checking the crap that was on the two remaining (no doubt a matter of time before France blocks these as well). I'm disgusted by the hateful ignorance on display there.
    Antisemitism makes my skin crawl, but I'd rather have the debate in public than hidden from view.
    The ACLU defended the right of Nazis to march in Skokie, and they were right. Something that could never happen in France, despite, or because of, her unwillingness to come to terms with her past. Shine a light on the sick bastards, and they wither and die. Let them sneak around in the shadows, and they'll seduce weaker minds and cause trouble.

  19. IanTheTerrible (10 comments.) Says:

    Brian, you've inspired me to examine my own thoughts on this. I will post them on my blog and elaborate here in the comments later. But something initially caught my eye in the TOS, and I thank Janet Marcum for touching on it.

    "“upload, post, transmit, share, store or otherwise make available content that would constitute, encourage or provide instructions for a criminal offense, violate the rights of any party, or that would otherwise create liability or violate any local, state, national or international law.”"

    This is one of the least enforceable pieces of legalese I've ever read. It also (maybe unintentionally) reflects a kind of relativistic view of some fundamental differences between nations, in that it makes no distinction between the laws of free societies and those of oppressive regimes. Almost any opinion or statement on Facebook can be construed as in violation of the laws of at least one country. By the standard Facebook's TOS set out, Free Tibet groups should be banned due to their violation of Chinese law, groups concerning the Armenian genocide should be banned for violating Turkish law, groups recognizing Israel should be banned for violating the law of numerous Arab nations, and so on ad infinitum. A question I would ask Alex Wu is why Facebook is legitimizing the law of such regimes by equation with those of free societies?

    More to come…

  20. Brian Cuban (138 comments.) Says:

    That is interesting and maybe the simplest answer of all. FB leaves it to the individual countries to police content entering their borders. It actually makes the most sense. It would actually be a great post to address which countries block Holocaust Denial Content.

  21. Janet Marcum (3 comments.) Says:

    You're welcome. :) I look forward to reading your further thoughts on this.

  22. IanTheTerrible (10 comments.) Says:

    I've completed my thoughts, for now, but I focused on whether or not I feel the haters should be silenced even in the private realm. Full post here: http://naughtygeneration.com/?p=191

    "On a personal level, I struggle with how one should approach Holocaust denial and other speech that offends me deeply. Should I want to silence these people? It’s clear to me from experience that there is no point in engaging these people. Their paranoid worldview will not be shaken no matter how high the mountain of evidence to the contrary. And to some extent, I fear that debating them somehow legitimizes their views as worthy of rebuttal, when they are clearly not. To battle them inflates their importance.

    There are those out there that actively work to eliminate this content from sites like Facebook and YouTube. I understand how this may seem a worthy pursuit, but what good is it? Other than angering the haters, what is the worthy cause behind eliminating their speech? Stopping the spread of hateful ideas may seem valiant, but who makes us the arbiter of what should and should not be heard? To act as such is to annoint oneself a Commisar of Acceptable Speech. It is to belittle the awesome faculties of human reason. Thinly-veiled antisemtism can be recognized by most anyone, and those who this speech wins over are unfortunate enough to have lost control of these faculties. Let them be seen and heard for what they really are; sad, lonely fools who blame everyone else for their self-inflicted suffering. "

  23. BooCompany Sentinel (1 comments.) Says:

    For your information

    The german anonymous blogger ‘lanu’ has recently taken steps against the Nazis
    on Facebook. There were newsreports about this in the whole country (2009-04-13 to 2009-04-16) and some reports on german television.

    The german speakers can read this blog article on boocompany.com

    http://www.boocompany.com/index.cfm/content/story/id/15780/

    lanu discovered more than 200 profiles and groups of the so called ‘Facebook Nazis’

    There was as usually no reaction from Facebook but some profiles were deleted,
    after some people vowed to take legal action against Facebook.

    Some major companies such as Telekom and Apple have stopped advertisements on
    Facebook, since they appeared on “Fake-Profiles” of well known historical figures
    such as Hitler, Goebbels and so on.

    Thank you for the interesting blog entry.

  24. moinser (2 comments.) Says:

    FB is lousy in deleting sites which aaffect there own rules… but the same is at blogspot.com – where hate and racism is forbidden by rules – but when you flag a blog nothing ever happens – may be flagging goes to the spam… just take a look at the illegal nazi music sites (from germany!!!) at http://wewantwar.blogspot.com or http://sascha1488.blogspot.com/ – full of hate, racism – i think blogspot is a google service.. they like it? At FB-Germany a lot of advertisers have withdrawn their ads as to their behavior (Telekom, O2, McDonalds…)

  25. moinser (2 comments.) Says:

    You can believe something, but it doesnt have to be allowed to say it again and again with the aim to hate people?

  26. Ali A. Rizvi (1 comments.) Says:

    If Facebook decides to delete Holocaust denial groups, it should also delete all anti-evolution creationist groups.

    There is obviously a lot of evidence that the Holocaust happened, but there is even more evidence in support of evolution. I sometimes find it funny that creationists who don't believe in evolution often slam Holocaust deniers.

  27. S. Newman Says:

    How disgusting! I immediately removed my page from Facebook, and forwarded the article about Facebook's refusal to remove anti-Semitic, Holocaust-denying pages to all my Jewish friends and associates. I let Facebook know my displeasure, too.

  28. mike from CO Says:

    The same people who deny that the extensively documented holocaust took place also believe that a guy named Jesus was born of a virgin, died and rose from the dead (among other impossible acts) when there was no written record at the time this supposedly happened.

    Amazing how people simply see what they want to see.

  29. Pat Says:

    Let these guys say what they want. That way we know who they are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  30. Pondo (2 comments.) Says:

    Free speech should not be cherry picked – what's right for one is right for all, else it's right for none.

    Besides I'm sure such forums make the ATF's and FBI's job that much easier tracking nutjobs.

  31. jb Says:

    So I guess all the pro Israel pages should be removed also because they are offensive to many Palestinians, and the laws of many countries don’t recognise Israel. Of course not! Your arguments seem to be motivated by your personal emotions.

  32. Paul Says:

    They can deny all they want but I was at Buchenwald in April 1945 and saw for myself.

  33. @matthewbrowning Says:

    Nice post- good discussion- But don't point out Israeli Atrocities being committed TODAY to @Bcuban- He calls you an anti-semite and runs away from the dicussion- then BLOCKS you- Ha! maybe to much partying with Manny :-)

    Dissenting viewpoints are not to be outlawed- Speech MUST remain FREE- Supreme court has upheld this with privately owned newspapers as CNN pointed out in there article.

    jb has a GREAT point- Isn't offensive to most of the world that Israel SLAUGHTERS humans in Gaza DAILY, uses white phosphorus against civilians, bombs the UN schools, Starves an entire population because they dislike the elected government of Palestine?? Facebook MUST then BAN any pro-israel zionist discussion group- The zionists wear no clothes- @bcuban, you have sided with the problem- not helped address it-

    P.S. Israel is the only rogue middle eastern country that HAS NUKES and HAS NOT signed the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty, They attacked OUR NAVAL ship the USS Liberty http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident… and because they have NUKES , but WILL NOT SIGN THE NNPT, they are not allowed one penny from the USA but they get BILLIONS even though their gov't has a balanced buget- We BORROW money to send them.

  34. Brian Cuban (138 comments.) Says:

    actually I said your rant was anti-semitic but you are right. I do not know what your personal beliefs are but you are entitled to your political views. My apologies for the implication as to your personal beliefs

  35. Pondo (2 comments.) Says:

    How is @matthewbrowning's post anti-semitic? Frankly I'm tired anytime there's a discussion on this topic the tried and true Israeli booster method of squashing debate is to casually throw out the anti-semite label. Every-time they do that they cheapen legitimate instances of hatred. Shame.

  36. bcuban Says:

    you are correct. I was wrong. The use of the word "slaughter" pushed my button.

  37. Amy in Massachusetts Says:

    All you have to do is read the comments section on those groups to see that they clearly promote hatred and violence. Clearly a violation of the Facebook TOS. Unless I missed something and FB is actually a supporter of promoting hatred and violence.
    Note to self: reason to avoid Facebook #637.

  38. IanTheTerrible (10 comments.) Says:

    Didn't he make the assumption that you are a Zionist? Have you ever said you were publicly? You do not have to be a Zionist to support Israel. I, for instance, simply support Israel because it is a democracy, and the only one in the Middle East. I also support it's right to defend itself against the enemies that surround it on all sides. That said, I am willing to assign some fault when it commits wrong doing, or when it lets the extremist elements within its population dictate its policies, domestic and foreign. My particular stance is just one of many possibilities; others may support Israel in different ways and for different reasons, all the while not being Zionists.

  39. G.C. Says:

    I know this is rather uncerebral compared to the vast majority of quality comments on this site. That being said: Hey! Guess what Nazis? We won. Not only did we win, we kicked your ass so badly you were like the last few rats after a building fire after the whole thing was over. You are still being hunted! We won. You lost. Forever. And ever. And ever.

  40. lostkiara (2 comments.) Says:

    Brian: Thurgood Marshall sort of hit on this idea. When there are nuts out there saying some of the most horrible things, let them say it.. then it is our job to speak even louder. Refute them, argue with them, debunk them, etc. It's better to get slugs out from under the rocks. Don't fear them as repulsive and revolting as they are.. No rational person believes that the Holocaust did not occur. There is so much hatred for other religions, other cultures, etc. And to JB, being pro Israeli or pro-Palestinian confuses the issue. We are talking about a group of whackjobs–that are promoting that the Holocaust did not occur–which is factually untrue. Should they be permitted to talk about it on an internet site? To me, I am glad they are talking about it–get these goofs out in the open… When you flush them out–really, their arguments have no merit.

  41. lostkiara (2 comments.) Says:

    And why do these nuts do it? In my opinion, this is the really deplorable and Anti-Semetic angle here. They know the Holocaust did occur, but they use the "denial" angle as a cowardly way to get their true core prejudices a venue. It hurts those that suffered through it and that is what it is all about. They are not true scientists or historians talking about something…just some hateful people who are too cowardly to come out and say, "We're bigots and we want to work up Jewish people who went through the Hitler horrors because we are real f–ked up."

  42. josh Says:

    Jews have an organisation called the ADL among others that fights against racism of all sorts, and works to promote the awareness of genocide and prevent it wherever it is. While it may appear that Jews only focus on their own genocide they are extremely aware and active in trying to prevent others. Unfortunately, just the genocide of Jews, more current genocides are extremely difficult to stop.

    If half of your family had been killed you might still be talking about it 60 years later also…or not.

  43. jdva (2 comments.) Says:

    S. Newman said: "I immediately removed my page from Facebook…"

    You're the only one that can do that, then. Facebook doesn't allow users to delete their accounts.

  44. Hjezek (1 comments.) Says:

    Brian & Christine:
    Brian & Christine:
    I blieve you both are right.
    One one hand, each movement starts out a a small group and as Brian rightly mentioned, we saw where that led with Nazi Germany.
    On the other hand, the more attention we give marginal groups like that, the more we make them attractive to people who probably didn't even hear about them in the first place.
    I believe, most people today know that denying the holocaust is just plain ridiculous.
    Harald

  45. TheAnswerIs42 Says:

    The CNN page that links to this site states "The Holocaust Denial movement seeks to deny or minimize the Holocaust, in which Nazis killed about six million European Jews during World War II. "

    If I'm not mistaken 11 million died in the Holocaust. Why only count the 6 million? Do the 5 million non-jews not count?

  46. jay Says:

    whats the holocaust? im not sure what it is but i heard it was made up… like the tooth fairy

  47. eah Says:

    Buchenwald was not a so-called 'death camp'. It was a concentration camp. No one denies the existence of concentration camps, or the cruelty that was perpetrated there.

    In this way, the foto accompanying this post is somewhat dishonest, because it shows what might have been a typical scene at a *concentration camp*. But this is different from the Holocaust, which refers to the (purported, some would say — there are people who dispute specific portions of the Holocaust story) deliberate policy of the Germans to murder Jews, e.g. via gas.

    BTW, what did you 'see for yourself'?

  48. jesse Says:

    This is a hard subject to discuss, at least 6 million Jewish people died in the Holocaust, after that, once German soldiers, police and SS units started killing innocent Jews, they then moved on to other people, because once the act of racist or religious murder became acceptable to them, they started to murder others, including European Muslims, Russians, African Blacks, and Gypsies, and it all started with the thinking "murdering people, even innocent people, was OK because they are different from me, and maybe their race or religion is to blame for my problems." That is what the Holocaust is truly about. It is the thinking that "someone is different than me, therefore they are to blame for my troubles, and I can humiliate, criminalize, de-humanize, and maybe even kill them". We all get mad at people of different religions or skin colors or national origins at some point in our lives, but then most of us pull-back and think to ourselves that we are not perfect, and before blaming others for our troubles, we should try solving things ourselves, even if "we" are not at fault. Racist and Bigoted people do not do this, once something has gone wrong in their lives, even if THEY ARE AT THEIR OWN FAULT, they will deny their troubles are theirs to take care of, and feel the need to blame others. By blaming other people based on religion, race, national origin, or even being sexist allows bigots to blame a faceless enemy, and faceless enemies are the easiest to hate and blame.

    The problems I have with this issue is do you tell others what to think, such as telling Facebook to shut-down hate sites, putting some issue with the freedom-of-speech, or do you let hate-mongerers continue putting inaccurate and make-believe, falsehood garbage on Facebook.

    As far as China's restrictions on Facebook, they came to power by wiping-out ethnic Russians in their territory, killed off the ethnic Japanese and Koreans in their present territory, and killing most of both the ethnic Hindu/Indian and Tibetian populations in Tibet. Of course, the USSR came to power by wiping out most of Russia's Jewish, Nordic, and Inuit populations as well. Most communist and fascist military dictatorships come to power with religious, racist, and ethnic blood-bathing being the preferred method, usually occurring because the victim ethnic groups are being blamed for that country's problems, even if they have nothing to do with the problems, not to mention that they usually have no power since they are minorities. This is how Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and Stalinist Soviet Russia came to power, and between 6-12 million Jews died at these monster regimes hands. For the Russians, though, Stalin's early alliance with Nazi Germany was repaid by millions of his own people, Jewish or not, being slain by the Nazis once they betrayed Russia, broke their alliance, and invaded Russia.

    This is a issue for Facebook to resolve in the end, but since I don't like or agree with these "Anti-Holocaust" people, I don't buy, read or watch what they have to say. I may make myself aware of their ideas, but these people make me sick and make me think that it is possible for there to be people who are a discredit to the human race. I am not Jewish myself, but the Holocaust DID HAPPEN, and we should all learn from it, from Confederate South Slavery & Jim Crow laws, Apartheid, the Rwandan Tribal Massacres, the Sudanese Darfur Genocide, and other horrible events. If we don't learn from these atrocities, then we are doomed to repeat them, again!

    Jesse

  49. Doug Says:

    “Free Speech that does not promote hate or violence, should be protected.”

    No. Wrong. Free speech should be protected, pure and simple. Just because they are demonstrably idiots and just because they offend you is no justification to remove their right to free speech. If you don’t like what they’re saying then start your own Facebook groups to counter them, there’s plenty of evidence for you to use. The moment you remove someone’s right to their objectionable free speech then you start to limit everyone’s right to free speech including that which you don’t find objectionable but I might, leading to “Politically Correct” speech, which in turn is the first step to the “truth” speech in Orwell’s 1984. You’re a big boy, instead of trying to muzzle them, fight them, on their own ground. Just trying to shut them down is the lazy cowardly way. If you object to their ideas that greatly then take the time and effort to prove your own. Don’t just rely on shutting them down on Facebook, that won’t change their minds, it just makes them martyrs to their followers.

  50. Brian Cuban (138 comments.) Says:

    I agree Doug. There is however a fundamental difference of opinion on whether HD promotes hate or violence. I believe it does.

  51. frzfire (1 comments.) Says:

    This is just another push of the capitalist agenda. Yes Holocaust Denial is wrong but that is not the reason that facebook is pushing this.
    I wrote a blog article about it at freespace7.blogspot.com. It talks about how they leave all the other racist groups but only delete these ones because they lose some cash….

  52. martine s (1 comments.) Says:

    Holocaust denial is forbidden by law in France, (and antisémtisme, haine raciale) which makes the difference. There is an official Observatoire de l'antisémitisme etc etc .Right and Left wings governments have been always keen to fight this révisionisme. Furthermore, revisionisme is still ramping :an ex comedian is a candidate for the forecoming european elections with a so called anitisionist list (as openly anti semtism is forbidden) and there is big turmoil about should he be forbidden or no…
    So this unwilingness to come to terms with the past (and a shameful past it is) might have helped in a way.
    What about Germany, does anyone know?

  53. stools (1 comments.) Says:

    It is to belittle the awesome faculties of human reason. Thinly-veiled antisemtism can be recognized by most anyone, and those who this speech wins over are unfortunate enough to have lost control of these faculties. Let them be seen and heard for what they really are; sad, lonely fools who blame everyone else for their self-inflicted suffering.

  54. meditation tshirt (1 comments.) Says:

    Real education must ultimately be limited to men who insist on knowing, the rest is mere sheep-herding.

  55. Ben (1 comments.) Says:

    This is not an easy issue. At the end of the day, I have to always support free speech (even that which is not explicitly protected under the constitution).

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