Comments on: No Border Pass For Agents http://www.briancuban.com/no-border-pass-for-agents/ Brian Cuban's version of TRUTH, JUSTICE and the UN-AMERICAN WAY Sat, 17 Jul 2010 01:42:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc By: AlanP. http://www.briancuban.com/no-border-pass-for-agents/comment-page-1/#comment-3912 AlanP. Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:39:32 +0000 http://www.briancuban.com/?p=3335#comment-3912 Do you have any idea how many websites I had to wade through to find one that isn't praising these two convicted felons as heroes? The rush to judgement against judgement is mind boggling! I would at least like to think that they talk that way because he's a drug smuggler(still doesn't justify it) and he didn't die. I 'd like to think that if he was shot in the back and killed just because he snuck over the border the reaction would be different. I'd honestly like to think that. Do you have any idea how many websites I had to wade through to find one that isn't praising these two convicted felons as heroes? The rush to judgement against judgement is mind boggling! I would at least like to think that they talk that way because he's a drug smuggler(still doesn't justify it) and he didn't die. I 'd like to think that if he was shot in the back and killed just because he snuck over the border the reaction would be different.
I'd honestly like to think that.

]]> By: Manuel P. Prada http://www.briancuban.com/no-border-pass-for-agents/comment-page-1/#comment-3849 Manuel P. Prada Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:25:10 +0000 http://www.briancuban.com/?p=3335#comment-3849 Dennis: You better be careful when explaining why you agree with Brian. You might come off sounding sophmoric and arrogant. (see Michael's comment above) A summary of the case and the justifications for the agents' prosecution : <a href="http://tinyurl.com/ytkfe3 " target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/ytkfe3 </a> A site dedicated to the Compean-Ramos defense: <a href="http://ramos-compean.blogspot.com/ " target="_blank">http://ramos-compean.blogspot.com/ </a> An interesting website for the critics that you might draw for agreeing with Brian: <a href="http://www.susanjacoby.com/ " target="_blank">http://www.susanjacoby.com/ </a> Dennis: You better be careful when explaining why you agree with Brian. You might come off sounding sophmoric and arrogant. (see Michael's comment above)

A summary of the case and the justifications for the agents' prosecution : http://tinyurl.com/ytkfe3
A
site dedicated to the Compean-Ramos defense: http://ramos-compean.blogspot.com/

An interesting website for the critics that you might draw for agreeing with Brian: http://www.susanjacoby.com/

]]> By: Manuel http://www.briancuban.com/no-border-pass-for-agents/comment-page-1/#comment-3848 Manuel Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:20:05 +0000 http://www.briancuban.com/?p=3335#comment-3848 You misunderstand. I think Alderete got what he deserved. I'm trying to make a point(again, it appears I'm doing it clumsily) about judicial reasoning and ethical binds created when we draw hard lines in the sand. (i.e. no free passes for coverups). If you think that Alderete's bad behavior warranted the bullet in the butt? No disagreement from me. If you think that the perp's bad behavior gave Compean and Ramos the license to cover-up evidence and lie about it? (assuming they, in fact, covered up and lied) Then I think your moral compass is a bit off-center and you wouldn't be a good candidate for a vacant bench or a prosecutor's job. (please tell me you're not a prosecutor) I'm not a typical defense attorney. I'm a corporate lawyer taking interest in legal "Gordian Knots" for academic/intellectual curiosity reasons. Call it a hobby. You and I disagree. Relax. Take a deep breath. We can discuss this without name-calling and chest beating. Biased? Proselytizing? Reverse psychology? If you say so. Are you one of the poor misinformed? I don't know you. You misunderstand. I think Alderete got what he deserved. I'm trying to make a point(again, it appears I'm doing it clumsily) about judicial reasoning and ethical binds created when we draw hard lines in the sand. (i.e. no free passes for coverups).

If you think that Alderete's bad behavior warranted the bullet in the butt? No disagreement from me. If you think that the perp's bad behavior gave Compean and Ramos the license to cover-up evidence and lie about it? (assuming they, in fact, covered up and lied) Then I think your moral compass is a bit off-center and you wouldn't be a good candidate for a vacant bench or a prosecutor's job. (please tell me you're not a prosecutor)

I'm not a typical defense attorney. I'm a corporate lawyer taking interest in legal "Gordian Knots" for academic/intellectual curiosity reasons. Call it a hobby. You and I disagree. Relax. Take a deep breath. We can discuss this without name-calling and chest beating. Biased? Proselytizing? Reverse psychology? If you say so. Are you one of the poor misinformed? I don't know you.

]]> By: Manuel P. http://www.briancuban.com/no-border-pass-for-agents/comment-page-1/#comment-3847 Manuel P. Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:10:25 +0000 http://www.briancuban.com/?p=3335#comment-3847 Dennis: You better be careful with explaining why you agree with Brian. You might come off sounding sophmoric and arrogant. (see Michael's pithy remarks above) A summary of the case and the justifications for the agents' prosecution : <a href="http://tinyurl.com/ytkfe3 " target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/ytkfe3 </a> A site dedicated to the Compean-Ramos defense: <a href="http://ramos-compean.blogspot.com/ " target="_blank">http://ramos-compean.blogspot.com/ </a> An interesting website for the critics that you might draw for sounding arrogant and sophmoric: <a href="http://www.susanjacoby.com/ " target="_blank">http://www.susanjacoby.com/ </a> Dennis: You better be careful with explaining why you agree with Brian. You might come off sounding sophmoric and arrogant. (see Michael's pithy remarks above)

A summary of the case and the justifications for the agents' prosecution : http://tinyurl.com/ytkfe3

A site dedicated to the Compean-Ramos defense: http://ramos-compean.blogspot.com/

An interesting website for the critics that you might draw for sounding arrogant and sophmoric: http://www.susanjacoby.com/

]]> By: Manny http://www.briancuban.com/no-border-pass-for-agents/comment-page-1/#comment-3801 Manny Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:22:09 +0000 http://www.briancuban.com/?p=3335#comment-3801 I agree with you. I didn't say it didn't happen either. (sorry for the double negative.) I'm just trying (inartfully) to make the point that humans have a hard time sticking to universal maxims. I agree with you. I didn't say it didn't happen either. (sorry for the double negative.) I'm just trying (inartfully) to make the point that humans have a hard time sticking to universal maxims.

]]> By: bcuban http://www.briancuban.com/no-border-pass-for-agents/comment-page-1/#comment-3822 bcuban Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:54:12 +0000 http://www.briancuban.com/?p=3335#comment-3822 What does anything you just said have to do with the fact that they obstructed justice by attempting to cover up what they did ? What does anything you just said have to do with the fact that they obstructed justice by attempting to cover up what they did ?

]]> By: Michael M. http://www.briancuban.com/no-border-pass-for-agents/comment-page-1/#comment-3806 Michael M. Thu, 20 Nov 2008 04:45:50 +0000 http://www.briancuban.com/?p=3335#comment-3806 Brian wrote: "Part of that is the expectation that we will not be shot at simply because we flee, unarmed in fear of apprehension in committing a non-violent offense." Since you seem so cocksure that the only wrong doing here was by the agents, I'm curious: What SHOULD should one expect when one runs from a felony crime scene Brian? From the appellete decision there is obviously much more to this case that the public, your readership included, doesn't get to see and hear. Manuel P.: nice try. Your sophmoric and arrogant attempt at reverse phsychology aside, there are two sets of facts here: what the shootee did and what the shooter did that led to the shooting. By choosing to ignore the circumstances surrounding the shootee's actions, you're suggesting that your porous, biased position should somehow make sense to the poor and misinformed among us. Proselytizing like a typical defense attorney, eh dude? Brian wrote: "Part of that is the expectation that we will not be shot at simply because we flee, unarmed in fear of apprehension in committing a non-violent offense." Since you seem so cocksure that the only wrong doing here was by the agents, I'm curious: What SHOULD should one expect when one runs from a felony crime scene Brian?

From the appellete decision there is obviously much more to this case that the public, your readership included, doesn't get to see and hear.

Manuel P.: nice try. Your sophmoric and arrogant attempt at reverse phsychology aside, there are two sets of facts here: what the shootee did and what the shooter did that led to the shooting. By choosing to ignore the circumstances surrounding the shootee's actions, you're suggesting that your porous, biased position should somehow make sense to the poor and misinformed among us. Proselytizing like a typical defense attorney, eh dude?

]]> By: Dennis http://www.briancuban.com/no-border-pass-for-agents/comment-page-1/#comment-3814 Dennis Thu, 20 Nov 2008 03:18:24 +0000 http://www.briancuban.com/?p=3335#comment-3814 Brian, I had never really heard the whole story of these two agents before, despite hearing about the story many times in the supposed "fair media". I never realized they had covered up their full involvement. I have to say I agree with your point-of-view on this one. Brian,
I had never really heard the whole story of these two agents before, despite hearing about the story many times in the supposed "fair media".
I never realized they had covered up their full involvement. I have to say I agree with your point-of-view on this one.

]]> By: bcuban http://www.briancuban.com/no-border-pass-for-agents/comment-page-1/#comment-3800 bcuban Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:58:29 +0000 http://www.briancuban.com/?p=3335#comment-3800 I was not saying it did not happen. I was saying I did not think it should I was not saying it did not happen. I was saying I did not think it should

]]> By: Manny P. Prada http://www.briancuban.com/no-border-pass-for-agents/comment-page-1/#comment-3799 Manny P. Prada Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:53:56 +0000 http://www.briancuban.com/?p=3335#comment-3799 One more thing... A word of caution, however, about one of the arguments you make. Specifically I'm talking about "They lied to federal investigators. No free-passes for law enforcement cover-ups". American history is rife with examples of law enforcement cover-ups that have been given a pass by 50% of this country. Are we prepared to accept the "no free-passes for cover-ups" as a universal maxim or do we pick and choose when it suits us? The ones that come to mind are the Gulf of Tonkin cover-up, the Iran-Contra coverups, Henry Cisnero's cover-up scandal, Bill Clinton's lies about Lewinsky, The yellow cake uranium lies, the Scooter Libby cover up, the US Attorney hiring scandal cover up, etc. I'm not sure that empirically proven cover-ups are easy to forgive when it's your team that perpetrates them. Anyway, good blog post. I always enjoy what you write. One more thing…

A word of caution, however, about one of the arguments you make. Specifically I'm talking about "They lied to federal investigators. No free-passes for law enforcement cover-ups". American history is rife with examples of law enforcement cover-ups that have been given a pass by 50% of this country. Are we prepared to accept the "no free-passes for cover-ups" as a universal maxim or do we pick and choose when it suits us? The ones that come to mind are the Gulf of Tonkin cover-up, the Iran-Contra coverups, Henry Cisnero's cover-up scandal, Bill Clinton's lies about Lewinsky, The yellow cake uranium lies, the Scooter Libby cover up, the US Attorney hiring scandal cover up, etc. I'm not sure that empirically proven cover-ups are easy to forgive when it's your team that perpetrates them.

Anyway, good blog post. I always enjoy what you write.

]]> By: Manny P. Prada http://www.briancuban.com/no-border-pass-for-agents/comment-page-1/#comment-3798 Manny P. Prada Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:53:27 +0000 http://www.briancuban.com/?p=3335#comment-3798 Dude, you are so right on this one. I fear, however, that your post will stir the passions of those that can't separate the crime(s) committed by the border agents and the crimes and legal status of Mr. Alderete. You're going to get a bunch of the following: "Mexican illegals don't deserve the right to not be shot", "Compean and Ramos are heros and they are being treated worse that the illegal alien(s)", "Johnny Sutton's priorities are in the wrong place. He is unfairly targeting law enforcement agents." Remember the Medellin-death-sentence post a few months ago? Many of your readers weren't able to separate the interesting legal points about the Supremacy Clause you were trying to raise from the nature of the disgusting crime committed. This is the problem with the Compean case and I really credit Johnny Sutton's intellectual honest/bravery for sticking to his guns on this one. An ideal prosecutor is one that can weigh the legal issues objectively without being bullied by the 1-issue-drumbeaters on the radio and their misinformed listeners. Dude, you are so right on this one. I fear, however, that your post will stir the passions of those that can't separate the crime(s) committed by the border agents and the crimes and legal status of Mr. Alderete. You're going to get a bunch of the following: "Mexican illegals don't deserve the right to not be shot", "Compean and Ramos are heros and they are being treated worse that the illegal alien(s)", "Johnny Sutton's priorities are in the wrong place. He is unfairly targeting law enforcement agents."

Remember the Medellin-death-sentence post a few months ago? Many of your readers weren't able to separate the interesting legal points about the Supremacy Clause you were trying to raise from the nature of the disgusting crime committed.

This is the problem with the Compean case and I really credit Johnny Sutton's intellectual honest/bravery for sticking to his guns on this one. An ideal prosecutor is one that can weigh the legal issues objectively without being bullied by the 1-issue-drumbeaters on the radio and their misinformed listeners.

]]> By: bcuban http://www.briancuban.com/no-border-pass-for-agents/comment-page-1/#comment-3793 bcuban Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:46:11 +0000 http://www.briancuban.com/?p=3335#comment-3793 appears to be a Facebook glitch. appears to be a Facebook glitch.

]]> By: Ian http://www.briancuban.com/no-border-pass-for-agents/comment-page-1/#comment-3792 Ian Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:28:47 +0000 http://www.briancuban.com/?p=3335#comment-3792 "Former United States Border Patrol Agents Ignacio Ramos and Ignacio Ramos" they have the same name? "Former United States Border Patrol Agents Ignacio Ramos and Ignacio Ramos" they have the same name?

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